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	<title>Comments on: Unschooling Sleep</title>
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	<description>“Soap and education are not as sudden as a massacre, but they are more deadly in the long run.” -- Mark Twain</description>
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		<title>By: michele james-parham</title>
		<link>http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/08/22/unschooling-sleep/comment-page-1/#comment-249</link>
		<dc:creator>michele james-parham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 01:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/08/22/unschooling-sleep/#comment-249</guid>
		<description>Thanks Laura! I think your question(s) is great! I&#039;ll try to address it all with a couple of points. 

I am vegan. William is a whatever is free, humane or available...so he&#039;s vegan at home, unless you count the occasional fish I cook for him :). Elijah has been raised eating vegan foods since he began eating anything outside of breastmilk. He has issues quite similar to mine with dairy and is aware of them. He has eaten things containing dairy and been sick...he remembers this and weighs his options when he&#039;s somewhere that might have tempting foods with dairy ingredients. He knows how it makes him feel and just like a lactose intolerant adult, he makes his own decisions and lives with the out come of them. He usually asks if foods are vegan or whether or not they have milk in them when we are at someone&#039;s house or a potluck. If he was allergic to dairy proteins, then it would become a *safety* issue...possibly a life or death issue and in that case it would be presented to him in that light and I would draw the line at possibly hospitalization/death. Living a life without arbitrary limits makes this possible for him to trust/believe me on something like this, so he wouldn&#039;t want to test the waters or &#039;risk it&#039;, like he does choose with dairy on occasions. 

Dirt, grass, flowers and other stuff living or not (such as paint chips, nails, cleaners, etc.) are held up to that standard of *safety*. Will it kill him to eat some dirt, not likely and he&#039;s eaten plenty. Can he eat grass...he has. Has he been informed that there are some plants in nature that can cause him to be horribly ill or die if eaten, yes and he knows to ask before just chopping down. Thankfully, E has always been around non-toxic cleaners for the most part and knows what their functions are and can use them correctly. I can&#039;t imagine him ever thinking about drinking them, unless they had been hidden/locked away and forbidden fruit. When you arm children with information and you respect their ability to think for themselves, it&#039;s amazing what they are capable of! As a result of not locking away my Dr. Bronner&#039;s Soap and such, I have a kid who will happily clean something, rather than think it smells like a drink :)

As for imparting certain health/diet ideas...E knows why I am vegan. He knows that most animals that are killed and eaten do not live a peaceful life and are not treated with the respect that they deserve...after all they are going to be nourishing your body. He feels that it&#039;s wrong to keep an animal deprived, caged and then brutally killed for food/clothing. He also is aware that it doesn&#039;t have to play out like this and is happy to nibble a little on real free-range eggs on occasion. He&#039;s eaten two scallops and a bite of chicken or two...wasn&#039;t impressed enough with either to want to seek out more. If he asked for meat, then yeah, I would find the best grass-fed pastured beef or whatever he wanted and I&#039;d cook it for him. It&#039;s not my job to decide for him, but to present him with the reality of the situation and for me to respect his decisions.

I agree with you about trans fats, preservatives and so on. Once again, these are concepts that all along E has been told about. We&#039;ve had great discussions about how he feels when he eats certain things that I would rather him not eat. He knows that many of the ingredients in things are there to trick him into thinking it&#039;s fantastic, but in reality it&#039;s not. He&#039;s actually become quite the label decoder! If he asked for something such as Oreos, I would first confirm that those cookies look yummy and then I&#039;d tell him that they contain some things that aren&#039;t that good for you, but these Newman&#039;s Own cookies over here, look like Oreos, taste better and aren&#039;t loaded with too much &#039;bad&#039; stuff -- which one would he rather have...he&#039;s a smart kid and usually goes for the &#039;better&#039; choice.

You can&#039;t just open the doors and shove the kid out...you have to guide them, provide them with information and then lovingly support the end results. Safety and information. I talked more about food in these posts and comments.  

http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/08/02/unschooling-food/

http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/06/05/round-peg-in-a-square-hole-and-parental-venting-dont-read-if-you-are-easily-offended-when-it-comes-to-parenting-decisions/

http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/04/29/non-coercive-parenting-part-2-unschooling-in-perspective-part-1/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Laura! I think your question(s) is great! I&#8217;ll try to address it all with a couple of points. </p>
<p>I am vegan. William is a whatever is free, humane or available&#8230;so he&#8217;s vegan at home, unless you count the occasional fish I cook for him <img src='http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> . Elijah has been raised eating vegan foods since he began eating anything outside of breastmilk. He has issues quite similar to mine with dairy and is aware of them. He has eaten things containing dairy and been sick&#8230;he remembers this and weighs his options when he&#8217;s somewhere that might have tempting foods with dairy ingredients. He knows how it makes him feel and just like a lactose intolerant adult, he makes his own decisions and lives with the out come of them. He usually asks if foods are vegan or whether or not they have milk in them when we are at someone&#8217;s house or a potluck. If he was allergic to dairy proteins, then it would become a *safety* issue&#8230;possibly a life or death issue and in that case it would be presented to him in that light and I would draw the line at possibly hospitalization/death. Living a life without arbitrary limits makes this possible for him to trust/believe me on something like this, so he wouldn&#8217;t want to test the waters or &#8216;risk it&#8217;, like he does choose with dairy on occasions. </p>
<p>Dirt, grass, flowers and other stuff living or not (such as paint chips, nails, cleaners, etc.) are held up to that standard of *safety*. Will it kill him to eat some dirt, not likely and he&#8217;s eaten plenty. Can he eat grass&#8230;he has. Has he been informed that there are some plants in nature that can cause him to be horribly ill or die if eaten, yes and he knows to ask before just chopping down. Thankfully, E has always been around non-toxic cleaners for the most part and knows what their functions are and can use them correctly. I can&#8217;t imagine him ever thinking about drinking them, unless they had been hidden/locked away and forbidden fruit. When you arm children with information and you respect their ability to think for themselves, it&#8217;s amazing what they are capable of! As a result of not locking away my Dr. Bronner&#8217;s Soap and such, I have a kid who will happily clean something, rather than think it smells like a drink <img src='http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>As for imparting certain health/diet ideas&#8230;E knows why I am vegan. He knows that most animals that are killed and eaten do not live a peaceful life and are not treated with the respect that they deserve&#8230;after all they are going to be nourishing your body. He feels that it&#8217;s wrong to keep an animal deprived, caged and then brutally killed for food/clothing. He also is aware that it doesn&#8217;t have to play out like this and is happy to nibble a little on real free-range eggs on occasion. He&#8217;s eaten two scallops and a bite of chicken or two&#8230;wasn&#8217;t impressed enough with either to want to seek out more. If he asked for meat, then yeah, I would find the best grass-fed pastured beef or whatever he wanted and I&#8217;d cook it for him. It&#8217;s not my job to decide for him, but to present him with the reality of the situation and for me to respect his decisions.</p>
<p>I agree with you about trans fats, preservatives and so on. Once again, these are concepts that all along E has been told about. We&#8217;ve had great discussions about how he feels when he eats certain things that I would rather him not eat. He knows that many of the ingredients in things are there to trick him into thinking it&#8217;s fantastic, but in reality it&#8217;s not. He&#8217;s actually become quite the label decoder! If he asked for something such as Oreos, I would first confirm that those cookies look yummy and then I&#8217;d tell him that they contain some things that aren&#8217;t that good for you, but these Newman&#8217;s Own cookies over here, look like Oreos, taste better and aren&#8217;t loaded with too much &#8216;bad&#8217; stuff &#8212; which one would he rather have&#8230;he&#8217;s a smart kid and usually goes for the &#8216;better&#8217; choice.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t just open the doors and shove the kid out&#8230;you have to guide them, provide them with information and then lovingly support the end results. Safety and information. I talked more about food in these posts and comments.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/08/02/unschooling-food/" rel="nofollow">http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/08/02/unschooling-food/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/06/05/round-peg-in-a-square-hole-and-parental-venting-dont-read-if-you-are-easily-offended-when-it-comes-to-parenting-decisions/" rel="nofollow">http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/06/05/round-peg-in-a-square-hole-and-parental-venting-dont-read-if-you-are-easily-offended-when-it-comes-to-parenting-decisions/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/04/29/non-coercive-parenting-part-2-unschooling-in-perspective-part-1/" rel="nofollow">http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/04/29/non-coercive-parenting-part-2-unschooling-in-perspective-part-1/</a></p>
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		<title>By: laura</title>
		<link>http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/08/22/unschooling-sleep/comment-page-1/#comment-248</link>
		<dc:creator>laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 23:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/08/22/unschooling-sleep/#comment-248</guid>
		<description>trying to force people to go to sleep when they&#039;re not tired seems like one of the biggest exercises in futility i can imagine.  this reminds me, though, that i had a question about the food thing, which is harder for me.  you&#039;re vegan, right?  do you/would you let elijah eat animal products?  do you/would you buy them for him?  i guess the answer to this question could vary by household (and we&#039;re not vegan anymore, so it&#039;s just kind of as an example) but what i&#039;m getting at is whether it&#039;s possible to draw a line around what is not just acceptable food, but food at all.  for example, personally i don&#039;t think anyone should be eating trans fats (hydrogenated oil, shortening, etc.) they are carcinogenic chemicals that aren&#039;t supposed to be eaten by people, but they&#039;re in so many processed foods.  and sure, sweets or fats can be bad for you in excess, but at least they&#039;re food.  so, say it&#039;s ok to eat shortening.  is it ok to eat dirt?  i do allow river to eat dirt occasionally (well, some cultures eat clay, and if it&#039;s &quot;clean&quot; dirt, at least it could be worse, i think), but not cigarette butts, and really never ever would i let him drink bleach... this got very rambly, and parts of this question seem like they&#039;d sort of resolve automatically with older kids, but for me it&#039;s impossible to say that my kid can eat whatever he wants at all, and surprisingly hard to draw a firm line around what is actually food.  i don&#039;t necessarily expect you to answer all these questions, i guess i&#039;m just curious if you currently feel the need to draw a line anywhere on this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>trying to force people to go to sleep when they&#8217;re not tired seems like one of the biggest exercises in futility i can imagine.  this reminds me, though, that i had a question about the food thing, which is harder for me.  you&#8217;re vegan, right?  do you/would you let elijah eat animal products?  do you/would you buy them for him?  i guess the answer to this question could vary by household (and we&#8217;re not vegan anymore, so it&#8217;s just kind of as an example) but what i&#8217;m getting at is whether it&#8217;s possible to draw a line around what is not just acceptable food, but food at all.  for example, personally i don&#8217;t think anyone should be eating trans fats (hydrogenated oil, shortening, etc.) they are carcinogenic chemicals that aren&#8217;t supposed to be eaten by people, but they&#8217;re in so many processed foods.  and sure, sweets or fats can be bad for you in excess, but at least they&#8217;re food.  so, say it&#8217;s ok to eat shortening.  is it ok to eat dirt?  i do allow river to eat dirt occasionally (well, some cultures eat clay, and if it&#8217;s &#8220;clean&#8221; dirt, at least it could be worse, i think), but not cigarette butts, and really never ever would i let him drink bleach&#8230; this got very rambly, and parts of this question seem like they&#8217;d sort of resolve automatically with older kids, but for me it&#8217;s impossible to say that my kid can eat whatever he wants at all, and surprisingly hard to draw a firm line around what is actually food.  i don&#8217;t necessarily expect you to answer all these questions, i guess i&#8217;m just curious if you currently feel the need to draw a line anywhere on this issue.</p>
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